necked up to .35 caliber. If you match the bullet to the game, this is one of the all-time great hunting cartridges. Lyman peep sight Slight fade bluing on receiver- stocks, barrel, butt plate, receiver/lever in beau 100% barrel and bore Wood in great condition Made 1951 30-30 Winchester. as a way to boost the power of the Model 94 lever-action rifle. Ruger's fine New Model Blackhawk extends the .30 Carbine cartridge's versatility. . Even today it occupies a strange halfway point between pistol and rifle cartridges, being similar in design to a long pistol round or magnum revolver round with its straight-walled case and round-nosed bullet, but loaded with rifle powders designed for the 18 barrel of the handy little M1 Carbine. True .30 M1 Carbine and .30-30 Winchester ballistics information can vary widely from the displayed information, and it is important to understand that the particular characteristics of a given round can make a substantive difference in its true performance. Worked on one the other day for a young kid. When the 357 Magnum revolvers came out, hunters used it to take an assortment of big and dangerous game. In rifle cartridges, we usually take the safe route and .30-caliber has emerged as the American shooters choice. Youre also more likely to find a rifle in .30-30, especially in the used market. Sell your 351 winchester for FREE today on GunsAmerica! But unfortunately, only rifles made for these cartridges was Winchester, no one else chambered them, how come? In 1987 Remington made an honest cartridge out of the .35 Whelen. Sure, we experiment a bit with other bore sizes, but in the end it always comes back to the .30 caliber. could have been necked down to .30 and would have made a better round for the M1. At the same time though, the Remington Model 8 also kicks a lot more than you would expect considering the rather mild calibers they were chambered for. This design allowed the use of a simple blowback action, shared between the Winchester 1905, 1907, and 1910 rifles. [9], The popularity of the M1 carbine for collecting, sporting, and re-enactment use has resulted in continued civilian popularity of the .30 Carbine cartridge. NICE BORE. WINCHESTER 30-30 M#94. Plainfield Machine Corp. made a .30 caliber pistol from 1964 to 1983 named the "Enforcer". As a rule of thumb, when it comes to hunting, muzzle energy is what many hunters look at when deciding on what caliber of firearm / ammunition to select. In most Caliber Battles, one cartridge clearly offers more power and velocity across a range of loads and bullet weights. The performance of cartridges paled in comparison to the .32 Remington (170gr bullet at 2,180fps for 1,794 ft-lbs of energy) and .35 Remington (200gr bullet at 2,080fps for 1,922ft-lbs of energy) cartridges Remington introduced with their new autoloading rifle, the Remington Model 8. The muzzle velocity was stated to be 1850 fps and the muzzle energy 1370 ft. lbs. Weight-wise, the .30 Carbine is also a bit of a disappointment, clocking in at 12.70 grams per round of M2 .30 Carbine Ball ammunition, heavierthan the far more capable 5.5645. The weapon was originally issued with a 15-round detachable magazine. We offer a 100% Authenticity Guarantee on all products sold on our website. Standard government-issue rounds reach over 1,500ft/s (460m/s), with factory loads, and handloads producing similar velocities or tuned for more efficient short-barrel performance without excessive blast. Normal jacketed bullet weight was 180 grains and factory ballistics had it moving at about 1,800 fps. USOG 60.7K subscribers Subscribe 40K views 4 years ago Join me for a look at another great investment rifle. I have a .356 Win. They truly were ahead of their time, as they were short magnums back when being a short magnum wasnt cool. Remington Green/Yellow: 1983 fps. The 351 WSL looks like a somewhat larger version of the 30 Carbine round, although the 351 is more powerful. has been offered in just about every rifle action type ever conceived and a few handguns. One way to think about this is as such: a foot-pound is a unit of energy equal to the amount of energy required to raise a weight of one pound a distance of one foot. The 1907 is designed with a short barrel, and completely . It's original load is already moving at the speed and with the energy of a 30 carbine but with a 70gr heavier bullet Click to expand. .30-.30 caliber In excellent used condition. The .30 Carbine cartridge was developed by Winchester and is basically a rimless .30 caliber (7.62mm) version of the much older .32 Winchester Self-Loading cartridge of 1906 introduced for the Winchester Model 1905 rifle. Yeah. you can refer to it as "self loading" instead of semi auto and still have that "special feeling". Every time I use it I ask myself, Whats not to like? Beats me, but nobody liked it enough to keep it in production. With overall 50% blue mixing to dark brown patina. too. His was in pretty good shape. They would probably still be around today. I have fired them all except the .22waiting for some ammo. The .358 Norma Mag. I reload for both the 351 and 401 win sl, they do quite well, and are a hoot to shoot. Every competition has a winner, but the truth is, youre unlikely to notice much difference from the whitetail stand. Re: Question for the experts: M1 Carbine vs. Winchester .351. WOOD HAS A REPAIR AT THE WRIST. 80% BLUE. Having owned several different rifles chambered in .351 WSL and .401 WSL over the years, I can attest to the fact that they are quite good at what they were designed to do: cleanly take North American deer and black bear size game when hunting in close cover where quick shots might be called for. The 351 WSL fired a 180 gr SP at 1850 fps, this is much higher than the 357 Magnum fired out of a lever action rifle, a 180 gr SP at 1500 fps. Neither Winchester cartridge was truly suitable for anything larger than small deer, and that might have been pushing it. The M1 Carbine is VERY reliable, sufficiently accurate for most urban needs, and is feather light. The .38 Smith & Wesson Special, designed in 1898, rocked the handgun realm with its ballistic performance making it a cartridge for the history books. Perhaps thats how it should be, the masses rarely embrace true greatness. As such, the following is for comparative information purposes only and should not be used to make precise predictions of the trajectory, performance, or true ballistics of any particular .30 M1 Carbine or .30-30 Winchester rounds for hunting, target shooting, plinking, or any other usage. If youd like to read some of the other posts my father has written for this blog, visit the links below: The .219 Zipper: A Good Cartridge That Didnt Quite Pan Out, One Mans Attempt At Explaining Hunting To Non-Hunters, 405 Winchester: Roosevelts Medicine Gun For Lions. Again, the above is for comparative information purposes only, and you should consult the exact ballistics for the particular .30 M1 Carbine or .30-30 Winchester cartridge you're looking at purchasing. Right now, I think that the Browning BLR lever-action rifle is the only production gun left on the market in .358 Win. To put this into perspective, a Boeing 737 commercial airliner travels at a cruising speed of 600 mph, or 880 fps. Mossberg .22 LR models 340 340A 340B 340M 342 342K 344 344K 346K 346B 350 350K 351 352 352K 353 Rifl Winchester mod. Grizzly bears have been shot with 357 Mag. The .25 Rem., .30 Rem. This new model featured two new cartridges, the .350 Rem. I have one, and I like it a lot. was introduced in 1955. Please click the above links to take a look at all of the .30 M1 Carbine and .30-30 Winchester ammo we have in stock and ready to ship, and let us know any parting thoughts in the comment section below. This is an Oviedo 1916 Spanish mauser chambered in .308 Winchester. Manufacturer Smith & WessonbrbrModel Model 351 PDbrbrSKU 106228brbrCaliber .22 MagnumbrbrBarrel 1.875 Stainless SteelbrbrCylinder Aluminum AlloybrbrOverall L Smith & Wesson 103351 Model 351 Classic 22 Mag 7rd 1.88" Black Stainless Steel Barrel Matte Black Aluminum Cylinder & Frame with Black Polymer Grip & No Internal Lock MFR # 103351 (103351) New Smith & Wesson Model 351 Classic chambered in 22 Mag. PISTOL GRIP, SPLINTER FORE END, PISTOL GRIP, SPLINTER FORE END, DOUBLE TRIGGERS, EXTRACTOR. A 10 mph crosswind will move the bullet 8.9 inches and 21.6 inches at those distances. With a 10 mph crosswind, the bullet shifts 7.4 inches and 17.8 inches at those distances, respectively. I read back in the 1980s a couple of gunsmith were doing conversation of 30 Carbine rifles to 45 Win. The same probably goes for the AR-15 when they think of a semi auto police patrol rifle. I'd go with the carbine if you plan to shoot it much. Classified Ad (1000+), Search Full Text of Listings The US .30 cal M1 Carbine is one of the most important developments in the personal defense weapon story, being one of the very first* intermediate calibers to be adopted as standard issue by a nation, and arguably the first purpose-designed PDW caliber in history. Since .22 caliber cartridges of that time period were not loaded to uniform ballistics, Winchester specifically developed the .22 Automatic Winchester Rimfire cartridge for reliable functioning in the Model 1903 rifle. Our website lists special deals on 9mm Ammo, 10mm Ammo, 45-70 Ammo, 6.5 Creedmoor ammo, 300 Blackout Ammo, 10mm Ammo, 5.56 Ammo, Underwood Ammo, Buffalo Bore Ammo and more special deals on bulk ammo. The .351 SL proved popular with police and security forces as the only chambering available in the model 1907, and was used by France in both world wars. Save your pennies and hold out for the M1 Carbinethen save your pennies and start stocking away ammo and magazines. One can almost hear the echoes of Norma Mag. Both clock in around 9 foot-pounds of energy, about half as much as a .308 Winchester. Barnes has a Vor-TX load with a 180-grain TSX bullet and a muzzle velocity of 2900 f.p.s. The .358 Win. As illustrated in the chart, .30 M1 Carbine rounds - on average - achieve a velocity of about 1990 feet per second (fps) while .30-30 Winchester rounds travel at a velocity of 2370 fps. Perhaps Military Rifle would have been a better term. Several manufacturers submitted proposals, and Winchester's little "United States Carbine, Caliber .30, M1," or, more simply, the M1 carbine, was the winning design. He can be reached via email at [emailprotected], being one of the very first* intermediate calibers. Each round was a straight-walled, semi-rimmed cartridge firing a round-nosed bullet at modest pressure, just like the .30 Carbine. Winchester - Model 70, Target Model, .243 Winchester, 26" barrel. I wonder if any gunsmith has made a AR 15 in 351 WSL? You can never lead if you always follow; the other cartridges were designed to chase Winchesters success, while the .35 Rem. Its too bad that no other companies picked up the 32 WSL, 35 WSL, 351WSL and 401 WSL . You want to look for a Marlin Camp Carbine in 9mm. The ammunition hung on a while longer, but eventually Big Green abandoned her babies and stopped making both cartridges. 110 grain .30 Carbine fired from the M-1: Remington Green/White: 1976 fps. *I have mentioned before that it is in fact theItalians who claimed the prize of first intermediate caliber to be adopted as standard issue, with their long but still very much intermediate 7.35x51mm round. If that's what floats your boat. round barrel worn finish and cracked butt plate please view pictures for condition. Ive repaired several successfully. Still, I hope its clear how closely these cartridges stack up. Nathaniel is a history enthusiast and firearms hobbyist whose primary interest lies in military small arms technological developments beginning with the smokeless powder era. To put this into perspective, a Boeing 737 commercial airliner travels at a cruising speed of 600 mph, or 880 fps. I can remember reading that years ago in hunting magazines that the Model 1910 was popular in Alaska, that even Barnes Bullets made .406 bullets for reloading the 401 WSL. The company has chambered several rifles in the cartridge including models in bolt-action, pump-action and semi-automatic. 30 Carbine 22 HRN390562 7 LEE90524 19 LY7738060 17 RCBS09217 22 RED11022 30 Gibbs 1 HRN390541 2 LEE90519 2 LY7738041 3 RCBS09203 1 RED11001 30 Herrett 2 HRN390542 3 LEE90520 6 LY7738045 2 RCBS09202 2 RED11002 . 24 inch barrel. Dubbed by Winchester as the "fastest straight-walled hunting cartridge in the world," the 350 Legend certainly seems to be designed to fill a particular role in those states which limit big-game hunters to straight-walled rifle cartridges. The .350 Legend has some catching up to do if it wants to rival its 127-year-old predecessor. Both cartridges use an unusual bullet diameter (.352 and .406 respectively), but its still possible to find soft point, FMJ, or cast lead bullets to use for reloading. Any series covering this topic would be incomplete without a look at the round, however! It arrived with three other cartridges designed to compete with Winchester's popular lever-action lineup. Thanks for your support. 350 Legend has more energy than the 351 WSL and less recoil than the 450 Bushmaster. The .351 WSL cartridge is a up-powered stand-in for the .44-40 or .45 Colt, throwing a 180 grain bullet (softpoint or FMJ) at 1900 fps. It credits the .350 Legend with 903 ft. lbs. "the designer of the .270 Ingwe cartridge!". Indeed, Winchester used the .32 Self Loading as the basis for development of the .30 Carbine cartridge in the early 1940s. MADE IN 1911. The US .30 cal M1 Carbine is one of the most important developments in the personal defense weapon story, being one of the very first* intermediate calibers to be adopted as standard issue by a nation, and arguablythe first purpose-designed PDW caliber in history. These seemingly small differences added up to a significant . Federal only offers two bullet weights for the Legend (160 grain and 180 grain). This is the Winchester Model 62A chambered in .22S,L,LR. offered the performance level of the .358 Win. Furthermore, the muzzle energy of a .30 M1 Carbine round averages out to 960 ft-lb, while a .30-30 Winchester round averages out to about 1890 ft-lb. The .30 Carbine's relatively straight case and round nose bullet have misled some to believe it was designed for . Buy a 351 winchester online. Id submit that for most shooters and hunters, cartridges like the .40 S&W and the 10mm Auto are the first things that come to mind when they think of semi-automatic .40 caliber cartridges. Ill bet its been awhile since those cartridges have been seen in a hunting camp. The Taurus Raging Thirty and AMT AutoMag III were also offered in .30 Carbine.[10]. These cartridges are remarkably similar from a ballistics standpoint, but the .30-30s slightly better long-distance performance gives it the edge in this category. The 35 WSL fired a 180 gr SP at 1390 fps, this duplicated the 38-40 ballistics. Mag. But in 2003 Remington decided to attempt a resurrection. It seems to me that this would be a good time to bring back these cartridges in a modern semi auto or compact bolt action rifle. However, the calibers available in the Model 1905, the .32 Self Loading (.32 SL) and the .35 Self Loading (.35 SL), were realistically pretty underpowered for satisfactory use on big game. The trouble is, they didnt sell. Re: Question for the experts: M1 Carbine vs. Winchester .351, Powered by UBB.threads PHP Forum Software 7.7.5. The only energy foot/pounds that were calculated were for the Hornady Custom, which had the highest mean velocity. However, Winchester experienced great difficulty in the development of their autoloading rifle and the unique calibers designed for it. After reading about the Winchester self loaders, I decided to look online to get more information and see what I could find out, It seems like most writers complain about the Winchester self loaders action, but this was a new product. Show Only Guns The .308 Win. GunGeek # 7867163 07/03/13. The .351 Winchester fired the same 180 grain bullet as the .35 SL, but at a considerably higher velocity of 1,850 feet per second (1,368 ft-lbs of muzzle energy). Feel free to take a look below at our bulk rifle ammunition for sale, including hunting and training rounds in the the popular calibers. [4] When compared to other medium bore rounds, the .351 SL is closer in power to the .35 Remington (200 grain .358 bullet at 1,950 to 2,000 fps from a 20-inch barrel) than it is to the .357 Magnum carbine (158 grain bullet at about 1,800 fps). Would certainly make things easier, from a tooling standpoint. while finding .30 carbine ammo can be a challenge at times, finding adequate quantities of .351 SL would seem an impossible task. In 1966 there was a gold miner that was hunting with Dad and I. and is probably a better deer and black bear cartridge at woods ranges than the more popular .30-30 Win. The .30 Carbine, for all practical purposes, is a scaled-down Winchester .351 SL. During that time, Winchester produced over 49,000 rifles, including over 8,000 produced during World War I and World War II. In most Caliber Battles, one cartridge clearly offers more power and velocity across a range of loads and bullet weights. The Model 1907 enjoyed a long production run of over 51 years and Winchester finally stopped manufacturing it in 1958. Rifle Carbines are available in 40 S&W, and some use it to hunt deer and wild hogs, but even the 32 WSL and 35 WSL beat it in ballistics. Mag. The .30 Carbine (7.6233mm) is a rimless carbine/rifle cartridge used in the M1 carbine introduced in the 1940s. The most popular cartridges for hunting and even target shooting begin and end with the thirties. This 180-grain load from Federal drops 9.4 inches at 200 yards and 34.1 inches at 300 yards. While the American mainstream wont accept the .35, they are not unloved. An M1 carbine design adapted to a rimless .357 Magnum round would be pretty neat but I can't see there being a big market for it today. Both of them had Long Tom 94's in 30-30 Winchesters. Due in large part to the limited utility of those cartridge,the Model 1905 was not a major commercial success. Included in that have been a whole bunch of deer, hogs and a bear or two. Copyright 2000-2023 24hourcampfire.com, Inc. All Rights Reserved. cartridgethe .351 Winchester Self-Loadingthat was substantially longer and more powerful than its .35-cal. It was introduced in the bolt-action Model 70 in which it was trustworthy, but boring. But whats good for military purposes isnt always ideal for the deer blind. The quest for an acceptable .35 has inspired such impotent wastes as the .35 Winchester Self Loader, once labeled a candidate for the title: Worlds Most Useless Center-Fire Rifle Cartridge.. Still, much like the old man who can rattle your teeth with a punch, appearances can be deceiving. From the Green Goblin (a bolt-action rifle I built on a Remington action), both will produce groups that are sub-minute-of-angle. with a 250-grain Oryx bullet-both with a 200-yd. Fusion Ammo has a 200-grain with a muzzle velocity of 2800 f.p.s. Sadly, I cant find a single major gunmaker chambering this cartridge today.
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